Testimony Breaker
By created
7/11/2013 10:07:30 PM
I have been questioning my belief in this church for a while... and I have a very reliable wall behind me. I AM WILLING TO CHANGE STANCES, I JUST NEED A SOLID RESPONSE.

Do you believe that music can testify the truth of the church?

Ok, here is what I say. I listen to dubstep (electronic music) all of the time, it is a huge part of my life. I am sure that most of us here have experienced "music chills"... yes? I get "chills" from this music constantly. Dubstep aside, I am guessing that you "know" the church is true within a song WHEN you get a chill; the holy ghost is telling you it is.----- with this mindset, is the holy ghost also telling me that dubstep is true? this question makes entirely no sense. which is why i am confused why people think it is the holy ghost that gives us chills in music.

sorry if this made no sense. but honestly, this is easily enough for me to break from the church whether it is reasonable or not. music is just very important to me


My answer:    
"In my opinion, the answer is no. Music has very little to do with my testimony.

I love music. It's beautiful. I was in an honors choir in high school, and we sang spiritual music. I was the only member of the church in that choir. I got those "chills" all the time from singing songs from other churches. At the time, I confused this with my testimony and began wondering if our church was the true church.

Since then, I have learned that the Spirit is so much more than chills. The Spirit is light and joy and happiness. It is peace and assurance. It is hope and righteousness. I typically do not get "chills" from reading the Book of Mormon, but I do get a warm feeling in my being and a calming sensation relaxes my worries as I study scripture and pray. I don't think I've ever gotten chills from listening to President Monson speak, but I get the chills almost every time I listen to Elder Holland. My point is that the Spirit is not chills.

I believe that God gave us bodies that can experience amazing sensations like fear, pain, anger, pleasure, happiness, and overwhelming goodness. Sometimes our emotions are even manifested physically like when hair stands up on our arms during extreme fear. I would classify chills as a physical manifestation of an emotion. As I mentioned, I get chills from listening to Elder Holland and from singing cool gospel music. Strangely enough, I get the exact same type of chills when I am scratching poison ivy or breaking a sweat in a sauna or catching my breath right after a hard sprint or getting my spine adjusted by my chiropractor or even when I get to see my dogs at home after being away for a long time.

I no longer confuse that nice spine tingling "chills" sensation with the Spirit, because I don't think the Spirit testifies of chiropractors and poison ivy scratching the same way it testifies of Elder Holland's amazing talks. I could be wrong, but I bet the "chills" don't have as much to do with the Holy Spirit as they do with endorphins in our blood stream.

That answer is probably longer than what you wanted, but I think the bottom line is that our testimonies should be based off of something deeper than the neat feelings we get from listening to church music."
posted at 23:17:58 on July 11, 2013 by ETTE
"I see what you're saying... Definitely. I am just irritated by the people who say they know the church is true because of a hymn they sang in church. Thanks for the help"
posted at 00:01:31 on July 12, 2013 by Created
"So, let me see if I understand, Created.

You think no one could say the church is true based on music.

But you are prepared to say it is not true based on music?

How do you figure? Sounds to me like music shouldn't be a part of it for you. You need to figure it out some other way.

Let me ask you this, what does, "The Church is true" even mean?

If you agree for a moment that the Church is true, does that mean to you that you MUST also accept that every word in a hymn is from God? Does it mean you must accept that truth is found only in the church? Does it mean that no general authority can ever be wrong? Does it mean that the prophet can never make a mistake? Does it mean that every time you take the sacrament or visit the temple you'll feel the spirit? Does it mean that the current church leaders are always doing exactly what revelation tells them to do? Does it mean your bishop will never do something dumb?

I don't think it means any if those things. What does it mean to you, Created?"
posted at 16:20:09 on July 14, 2013 by beclean
My spin    
"@created: I am with you in the aspect that I hate when people say they know the church is true because of _______________(fill the blank with anything). I know testimonies come in different ways to different people but I live in Utah County and I tell you every fast sunday I hear the craziest stories that have nothing to do with the gospel. But that aside.

Sounds like you are ready to leave the church and have found a tiny crack and have said,"Yeah, this is why the church isnt true." I have to agree with beclean. How I deal with my bad attitude towards others is the church is true the members are not. I honestly think that some of the time people may feel the spirit when a hymn is played. I think the chills you are describing is the product of the brain. It knows you like dubstep so when you hear good dubstep you have these chills. Same can be true of someone sitting at church. Anyway, I hope you find the answer you are looking for through prayer. Ask God if this is his church. Dont reason your way out because of chills."
posted at 12:25:38 on July 15, 2013 by wantfreedom
I'd like to bare my testimony    
"...I know dubstep is true. I know Skrillex is a true musician. And magician. I love the way he can make me feel like I'm at a rave, a rock concert, and a Transformers movie all at the same time. I know that if we follow him and resist the temptation to listen to Deadmua5 we will always have the chills to be with us. Amen.

Jk...Skrillex sux. Jk again. Kinda. But seriously, the language of the Spirit took me personally a lot more than one experience to learn. Took me thousands. Literally. Sometimes I cry. Sometimes I don't. Sometimes I get the chills. Sometimes I don't. We learn in Gal 5:22 what some the fruits of the Spirit are. And there are many. I believe chills, tears, whatever are bodily manifestations of the fruits of the Spirit. But I have come to learn for myself that neither they (chills/tears/etc.) nor the fruits of the Spirit that caused them are the Spirit itself. I had to learn that from direct experience. And I'm still learning. If I would have thrown in the towel at chills well...hmm.

Lol, I actually never intended on posting seriously. Well there ya go."
posted at 08:22:26 on July 16, 2013 by they_speak
Faith in Christ    
"The first principle of the gospel is "faith in the Lord Jesus Christ." If you don't have faith in Him and the atonement, then whether or not music can testify of truth is irrelevant."
posted at 10:40:03 on July 16, 2013 by Anonymous
Dubstep is the work of the devil    
"those chills you're feeling might be chlamydia.

posted at 11:02:43 on July 16, 2013 by Anonymous
I can relate    
"I get that same feeling when I listen to Rage Against the Machine. God is bigger and more potent than any of us can get our head around. Sometimes "truth" is all it takes to feel something spiritual. It annoys me when people talk about feeling the spirit. Keep it to yourself why don't you? If it's such a spiritual experience, why do you need to say it out loud? Someone who is not feeling what you are feeling or does not yet have a "testimony" might think they are dysfunctional or that you are lying... or crazy. Mormons sound so crazy to non-members with the constant talk about the spirit. If I am granted something otherworldly I thank my lucky stars and try to keep it personal.

And by the way...there is a feeling that comes from the other side that feels nearly identical.

As always, theyspeak is right on. Don't read too much into the chills."
posted at 11:15:04 on July 16, 2013 by Anonymous

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"We cannot keep one foot in the Church and one foot in the world. One reason is the world and the Church are rapidly diverging. We will lose our balance.We know that "no man can serve two masters." Some, I fear, are attempting to do what President Marion G. Romney described as trying to "serve the Lord without offending the devil." "

— Larry W. Gibbons

General Conference October 2006